Ok Ok Ok, I know some of you have heard our shows, and read our articles. I know by now it may seem that we are out to destroy Nintendo and everything it stands for, but that is far from the truth. I like that Nintendo is about family much like in the vain of Disney, however Disney has shown that it has the abillity to offer adult content without insulting our intelligence. I don’t think the same can be said for the “Big N”.
Now before I get knocked in the head with your hate, we all can agree that it was Nintendo’s own words that people become intimidated with the complexity of a lot of video game controllers. In an article on reportbusiness.com Reggie Fils-Aime goes on to say how the introduction of “Goldeneye” lead to “lightning-quick reflexes” which in turn changed the focus to complex controllers. And with that said are we to believe that this complexity can’t be solved by reading a manual or following most in-game tutorials showing how controllers are used. I get that Nintendo is going for a broader audience but do they feel like this same audience is not able follow directions.
Sure a lot of fans of the Wii will come to the defense of Nintendo with the mantra “Innovative Gameplay over Graphics” but does this innovation have to come in the simplest form? I’m not taking anything away from the fun that the Wii promises to deliver; however I know that fun can also be a challenging and enriching experience. Take Smash Bros Brawl for instance; here is one of the banner titles for the Wii but to be able to get the best experience from it you need to either buy a classic controller or whip out an old gamecube style controller. Both of these controllers stray far to the left of the simplistic Wii-mote yet it’s the fastest selling Wii titles to date.
In my honest opinion harsh or not, to stand up for the Wii because of it’s “Simplistic Innovative Gameplay” that’s offered in the majority of their catalog; is a voice that says “I’m not smart enough to press more than one button at a time, I need to flail my arms about in order to grasp what I’m to do to play a game.” Also we can’t just blindly blame the kids for this either, kid friendly games are offered across all platforms as well as family friendly games. Yet the other two companies have seem to be able to offer content other then the “move your arms in a swinging motion to hit the ball” type of game. Disney’s Pirate’s Of The Caribbean was a blockbuster smash for all three movies, and they were more then some guy on a boat yelling “Yo Ho Ho and a Bottle of Rum.”, but then again maybe, just maybe some people like the thought of being called dumb by a company. Go figure.
Posted by Kid Sidious, Apr 05, 2008 10:06 AM
hitstick wrote on Apr 08, 08:55 am
It seems you don't get it. Games like Zelda, Mario, Brawl, etc are all just as complicated as they were last gen. They are not oversimplifying existing franchises. They are simply creating new ones like wii-sports and wii-play to allow new gamers to have fun too. I don't see the problem. We get all the same classicly innovative Nintendo gameplay we've come to know and love, while being able to play new games with our families. How is this a bad thing? I guess I don't look for a video game to vindicate my intelligence so it's hard for me to be insulted by a simple control scheme. Oh, and you should play some more Brawl, you absolutely do NOT have to buy the classic controller to get the most out of the game. My friends and I can play just fine with just the Wii-mote.
PIECANADA wrote on Apr 08, 12:20 pm
HOW DARE YOU INSULT GODTENDO!1!!! THEY CAN DO NO WRONG!!1!!!
hitstick wrote on Apr 08, 12:22 pm
Oh and Nintendo can't do wrong, they are perfect, just as PEICANADA said, so stop making negative articles about them please.
Razien wrote on Apr 08, 12:41 pm
Man, what was your point here? Nintendo said that some people can't get into videogames starting playing complicated games, so they made a control scheme that can be enjoyable for everyone. Zelda for Wii, Resident Evil 4 and SSBB(just to name a few that were in the last gen) are all perfectly suited for the Wiimote (are even better than with standar controls), and they are not stupid, boring or dumbed down versions. I play SSBB with Wiimote+nunchuck and prefer it than playing with the GC controller. And PotC was a terrible comparision, as it is not so good and had good Wii controls (while most Nintendo games are real gems).
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 12:45 pm
i don't get you crazy nintendo people all of yall crave for more and here's this guy pointing out a few flaws in their Wii and people go bat shit crazy!!!!! he has a good point if disney can give out family content and adult content why can't nintendo what are they afraid of? bunch of punks!!!! everything don't need to be simple period.
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 12:57 pm
He's actually pointing what Nintendo did best. Complain about SSBB lag, complain about the damn Online Services, but hell... real gamers always wanted a goddamn Mouse like interface for their console.... and now Nintendo did it, fanboys find ways to say it's TOO simplistic? How simplistic is motion control in your head? Trust me, it's not too simplistic for games such as Trauma Center. It's easier to use but it's more than a standard remote. I played RE4 all again because it was way better with the remote than with a joystick.
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 01:05 pm
Really, you fanboys are all just jealous that Wii is the ultimate gaming machine, which can play PC games better than even PC can while still playing the best console games in the industry.
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 01:44 pm
Real mature, that last post was not made by me... When you have something intelligent to say, say it instead of pointing stupid reply and hiding behind someone else nick name.
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 02:08 pm
Just re-confirming this, the first post I made was NOT by me. Damn fanboys.
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 02:19 pm
yeah i get motion control is the appeal to the system, but if it was so great for every game made then why even make a classic controller for sell. and it's bs if you try to say that hardcore gamers want it because they can't use the motion controls....plus according to everyone the motion control offers depth and simplisty so why even bother with another type of controller that contradicts this. I don't think that all family games should be burn to the ground, but offer me a bit more complexity and some challenge other then I got to make this jump would be nice. is that to much to ask for?
Razien wrote on Apr 08, 02:37 pm
headshot just go away... Why can't you just appreciate the fact Nintendo saved gaming? Sony and Microsoft are trying to ruin it for us hardcore...
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 02:54 pm
Again and again... anyway I'll take it as flattery. Now taking in consideration that there's a nunchuck controller. This old "I'm too dumb to press more than a button at a time" is completely irrelevent. You can actually use as much control input that way than on any other remote. Z + C + Analog stick + B + A + Pointing Screen + Shaking the nunchuck is just one combination. This coul be translated in the Ps3 controller as L1+L2 +Left Analog + R1 + R2 + Right analog + sixaxis motion. So what's the big problem now? I can't see any depth in his arguments, there's only an opinion wich is : "Wii users are too dumb to play games"
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 03:00 pm
In reality, only the 360 and PS3 controller are designed for unintelligent idiots. Indeed, so are the games. Halo? Garbage, Red Steel destroys it. GTA? Casual Trash, Wii Play is a much better game for casuals anyway. Crysis? Awful, Medal of Honor Heroes has superior graphics and controls. Just stop this nonsense. Wii is the best, fact.
Stained Pupil wrote on Apr 08, 03:20 pm
What is your point dear M alter ego, do you tend to discredit my replies because you have no arguments? This proves how innapropriate this site is for discussion. There's no way I could even argue with someone hiding behind my name. I'm into gaming for more than 20 years now and there's no intention of saying bad things toward the 360 and PS3. My alter ego here seems to either think otherwise, or just feel that irony will save his face from his pointless arguments. (Actually he has no face, how shameful) Anyway, I'm leaving now and any comments further made could be discarded. This dumb guy just proves my point and the ridicule in this pointless article. Aw, I don't care anyway so just do what you want.
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 03:21 pm
you smoke crack if you think red steel destroys halo!! I don't mind giving wii some credit but you sound like a junkie trying to sell some cheeseburgers for a fix. Crysis awful you must be out of your mind, i think it's time to step away from the pipe now.
Goglu666 wrote on Apr 08, 03:47 pm
headshot: As Stained Pupil mentioned, that is propabbly his "alter ego" talking. As you can see one has arguments and does protect this point of the console while admitting that it is not perfect but compare it to other consoles without bitching on them. - The other just do the opposit, giving crap on anything he can. I doubt he is suffering from dual personality (still is a possibility though). I'd just stop pushing the other Stained Pupil, he's really just doing this to flame the thread. For the subject, I really think this guy should reconsider his points. It's true that some games seems to have toned down controls... but how much toned down is having real control? There are much more things that could be done with the Wiimote than other remote, and while only the Wiimote config does not offer as much input, joining the nunchuck changes that a lot. Might want to look in 3rd paties game to see some hard games that are worth looking into.
Wiseguy19 wrote on Apr 08, 03:59 pm
Nintendo Fan boys will be happy with any and everything Nintendo does. Nintendo can use a fuckin Joystick and fan boys will be thrilled.
Goglu666 wrote on Apr 08, 04:00 pm
Wiseguy: so does PS3 and MS fanboys. What's your point?
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 04:04 pm
Goglu666: yeah I get what your saying that the motion control does add variety to the way you play the game but I much like this article don't think that its the solution or should be consider as saving the industry either. An it's obvious that nintendo sees the need for a standard controller hence why there is one for purchase. I don't understand why people are so afraid to think about the what if argument that nintendo could do mature complex games that provides compelling gameplay that involves some thought or has some substance. this is not a bad thing i mean even microsoft tries to do family friendly games on it's console whether or not it's a success is not the point, the point is they try. nintendo can do simple pick up and play games for the fam and more indepth engaging experiences for mature gamers. this everything simple approach is a bad idea and as gamers we should all want the best of both worlds.
Goglu666 wrote on Apr 08, 04:32 pm
I admit that Nintendo does not have many games that are appealing to core gamers. I did enjoy Metroid Prime 3 and that is the closest to core gaming there is from a Nintendo studio (I know it's actually Retro, but they are 2nd party right?) They did tone down features as weapons are upgradable and not cumulable like on the other games. Is it an attack to my intelligence? I don't think so. Is it tone down... I'd be flipping towards YES, but there are much more in the game that balanced it the other way. Now Nintendo has it's franchised games, Sega has it's franchised games, Sony and MS as well. Do I think Sonic's games get's easier, yes I do... but that is the thing with videogames. While you must evolve (do you still read 25 pages long books?) the content must still be here. Nintendo is good in making games for everyone and they do it pretty well. While a hardcore gamer that needs it's adrenaline rush might feel left out, he will also not find many people in his direct family and friends to play his games with him. That is why Sony and mostly MS has strong Online. Nintendo used another approached, do they consider us stupid? not at all. Now, there are 3rd parties that makes crap, and other that makes damn good games that uses the complexity of the system. Obscure is hard and complex while it uses motion, pointing and nunchuck pretty damn well. The same happened with Sony and crash that was used again and again in different types of games, but did not offered any depth. SSBB is quite basic when looking at it, but having that much levels, that much characters, a lot of strategy (yes there is, try playing with peach and you'll need it) level builder, and many challenges to unlock extra features like modes such as boss battle and all star battle, there are much to it than many games that has been released on all platforms in a long time. It offers good fun for basic players and a hard challenge for hardcore gamers.
Wiseguy19 wrote on Apr 08, 04:32 pm
This article is true down to the letter yet it's almost like Nintendo fan boys won't see it. Nintendo games are simple and plain. I'm a GAME fan boy, I have no favorites and that allows me to step outside the box and see what Nintendo is doing. Fact of the matter is if Nintendo recreates Mario and really makes him next gen, fan boys would do a complete 180 and say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. If Nintendo creates a better controller fan boys would love and cherish it. It's almost like fan boys are living in the bizarro world.
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 04:35 pm
plus i would want any company to label me as not being able to understand that you have to press x to do one thing and y to do another and if it's hard for other people to follow that then they can learn just like they have to learn every other complicated thing in this world. Jobs hasn't become simplier to do yet people still work and look for work to challenge them well at least some do lol
headshot24/7 wrote on Apr 08, 04:52 pm
first I want to clear up my last post I meant "I would *not* want any company to label me as not being able to understand that you have to press x to do one thing and y to do another and if it's hard for other people to follow that then they can learn just like they have to learn every other complicated thing in this world." Goglu666: i hear you and i'm not taking anything away from prime 3 or ssbb but even you can admit that games of this caliber are few and far between on the Wii. And yeah crapware gets thrown out a lot by third parties because of nintendos mini games wii sports and wii play have been sucessful, but that's because one is pack in with a controller and one is packed in with the console, both are fun but still are mini games. nintendo's seal of quality needs to come back and they need to start demanding better from developers this simple is the way forward to me is just a way backwards
SaiyanFury wrote on Apr 09, 06:04 am
While I wouldn't say that Nintendo makes simple and plain games as Wiseman describes them, I would have to say that they really do need an infusion of originality in their games. It seems with every new Nintendo console, the Nintendo fans are already foaming at the mouth for the inevitable sequels of Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Super Smash Brothers, Star Fox, and the list goes on. Those established series are all great, and I appreciate the completely positive impact they have had on the industry. I, myself, started playing most of the above on the NES and SNES and still play those games to this day on my PC via ROMs. My old NES and SNES gave out a long time ago, and I have a powerful PC so I don't see the need in buying used consoles that are that old. While those game series' are all fine and dandy, and all have a high amount of gameplay and quality, Nintendo really needs some new, inventive IPs. By my analysis, the last really good series that was envisioned by Nintendo fan God, Miyamoto Shigeru was StarFox. Of course I could be wrong there, as the last new Nintendo console I owned was a GameCube. But I can't think of any really memorable or new and original IPs, since the N64. Nintendo essentially makes their own consoles to play their own games. If third parties want to throw out a game here and there, they're free to do so. Which is literally what they do most of the time: toss out a party game, or some simply conceived game that they think will sell, which results in half baked games that not even casual gamers will always be interested in. Of course this is only one man's opinion. I have been playing console games since the 80s, starting with my Atari 2600. I then moved onto the Sega Master System, NES, then Genesis and SNES and so on. I've played them all. I am no fanboy for one company or console. I've played since Nintendo saved the home console industry in the early 80s, and for that I am thankful. But things have changed. Nintendo is not the "industry saving" force that it once was. Since the days of Sony's falling out with Nintendo, Sony has revolutionized the games' industry since the inception of it's independent PlayStation console back in 1995. With that one console, Sony seemed to draw much of the industry's originality, leaving Nintendo to stand on it's own and making it come up with it's own software solutions. I rate the SNES as 1 of 2 of the best consoles of all time. I would credit the original PS as the first as it truly revolutionized the industry. Mass adoption of 3D graphics, true digital sound, a controller that worked well in 3 dimensions, and the mainstream developer adoption of cheap and high capacity CDs. The SNES had as much originality as the original PS, but didn't make the same industry transforming leaps as the PlayStation. Although no 3D will ever replace that awesome Mode 7 scaling and rotation. Those effects alone make the SNES stand out. But since the original PS took much of the industry originality, as I stated Nintendo was left to it's own devices and developers that were content to make software on the big N's consoles did so. This unfortunately, led to some stagnation in originality of Nintendo's games. Starting on the N64, they started relying on well made sequels to sell software and hardware, and the trend continues to this day, through the GameCube and onto the Wii. Nintendo games simple and for the unintelligent? I say no, ultimately. Using physical motions to replace buttons mashing games simpler? I can't really say. The motions can be complex in their own right. Yet, the move to appeal to casuals and non-gamers means that Nintendo needed to dumb down games and controls for people who are unfamiliar to more complex scenarios. In this respect, I can also agree with the direction that Wiseman points. But Wiseman's point about Nintendo fanboys embracing every new thing Nintendo does, is well taken. Nintendo fanboys have demonstrated a loyalty that is almost beyond traditional fanboyism. They love everything Nintendo does, and claim that as a company, Nintendo can do no wrong. Hardcore Nintendo fans don't like anything different that could be Sony or Microsoft. He's right about if Nintendo made a true (next-gen) console and Mario made an appearance, they'd be all for it. Not to mention that if Nintendo designed a new controller, the fanboys would embrace it completely. This is one of the reasons I am not a fanboy of one console. They all have their merits. I love the PS3 for it's own first party games. Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, amongst others. I like the 360 for it's Japanese exclusives like Blue Dragon, and Tenchu Z. The 360 has it's own merits. I can change out the batteries of the controller with my own, and not have to plug it in to recharge. It also has good ballast weight so it feels good. The PS3's controller lacks both of those features. The PS3 also suffers from a lack of hardware upscaling. This is another feature the 360 has in it's favour. I played Fatal Frame II on my 360 and it looked amazing playing on my 61" widescreen HDTV. The PS3 on the other hand, has it's own advantages. Generally superior hardware, although more complex to develop software for. A better controller design for the old style gamer. Built in Wi-Fi, same as the Wii. The built in Blu-ray playback software is a plus if you're a home theatre fan. The BD drive is great for games that have a crapload of content that require lots of space on an optical disc. Of course in the end, your argument is your own. The Wii simplistic and insulting to gamer intelligence? I don't think so. Lack of true originality? Yes. People here make good points, but some are heavily biased. Some towards Nintendo, others to none. As Wiseman said, I am also a fanboy of games in general. Not of one console. Play whatever console you like best. :)
To Kid-You're-Not-Serious! wrote on Apr 09, 08:28 am
You just dont get it do you? Every point you're trying to make is the REASON Wii units fly off the shelves! Your post is poorly written: are you bashing the games, the controllers, or both? Funny how you complain about too-simple controllers from the Wii. What other console has you using dual controllers? And between them there are almost as many buttons as the XBox360 controller! Granted, Nintendo needs more games to take full advantage of all this, but that's not your focus right? Or is it? It's like you got pissed off playing some Nintendo game, and couldn't come up with anything better than, "this company is calling me stupid man!" I like this response from another website by "Sonic Flash": "I'm going to make this quick, because I have to get to a class: > Simplifying an interface has occured through all PC and game development > If you WERE a serious SSBB gamer, you would OWN a GCN controller already > Many other Wii games use the GCN controller > Rock Band and Guitar hero use expensive and oversimplified controllers and they are widely popular BECAUSE of it > Games haven't gotten less complex; just the controls used to play them. IMO Twilight Princess was the best controls on any Zelda game, followed by Phantom Hourglass, controlled ENTIRELY by the stylus > If I hear ONE MORE complaint that you HAVE to flail your arms about or engage in any movement besides a short imperceptible wrist waggle to play the Wii, I will dig deep into the dark crevices of the deepest pits of hell and extract a hatred so black its presense alone inspires the wont of death, and I will choke you mercilessly with it for your foul unrelenting ignorance, and then I will laugh. >_"